Hi, everyone. My name is Irina, and this has been W beauty pro podcast. Our first guest is Seattle esthetician, Sarah Martinez. Hi, Sarah. Hi. This is one. I hope so. So, Sarah, tell us more about who you are. What do you do in Seattle? As UDS addition? Would you want to like how I like originally got into beauty? Or did you want to know like, just like my first esthetician. Just quickly introduce yourself and then I'll, I got some questions. Okay, cool. Well, I originally grew up in about two hours north of Seattle. So in Mount Vernon. Everyone knows is like the tulip town. Okay, and then I graduated high school there. And then I moved down to, I would say some image and then I went to Beauty School, Evergreen beauty. They had a Bellevue location. And then from then on, I kind of worked around the greater Seattle area for like the next three years after that. And now I'm in Lynwood, I have my own business. So in doing that, that's like a short summary. Okay, and what is your main focus? What services do you do? It's kind of hard because I focus mainly on three services. Definitely full body sugaring is like my top tier, quickest book keeps him busy the mainly but I also do lash extensions, and then lash lifts and eliminations. Okay, and let's go back to the beginning of your career. Okay. Why did you decide to become an aesthetician? I didn't really decide because I didn't know it was a thing. A lot of people don't know, an esthetician is even a job or like a career. They mainly think of Oh, you're gonna wax people, or you're gonna do hair. Like that's pretty much anybody who knows. No one knows that that. I think that was like in 20. Because when I was in high school, it was 2016. So I think that was just about when the peak of classic lashes were starting to show up. And sugaring was in Washington State. And I didn't know either one of those were But originally, a friend came over my house, and she actually had eyelash extensions. And I was like, Ooh, what's that? She just like talked about, I'm just like, you can't take them off. They're on there. It's kind of cool. But then eventually, they were telling me that it's a job and then it's more than it is. And so then that's kind of how I got started. But before that, I would like wax my sister. She'd get stuck in the bathroom. I had to help her all the time. And I told her one day like, oh, like when I'm not going to be here to get you unstuck from the wax or anything. But eventually it was kind of funny that I now sugar her. She's kind of like my lifetime client now. Okay, your guinea pig? Yeah, definitely. guinea pig. Yeah, that's how we started. He was really to the husband's friends. Oh, totally. There's, you said you went to Evergreen? Yes. Why evergreen? Um, I think when I Googled like beauty schools, that was like the most promoted one off Google, it just always showed up. But I also was looking around every area and roba but really what brought me towards ever it was the quote or sorry to Evergreen was it was the closest one to some damage. So there was a Bellevue location. I lived in Spanish. It was like a 20 minute drive. I just started learning driving, so I didn't want to drive too far away. And Mount Vernon to Everett would have been crazy. And I just moved to Savannah and show him like Bellevue. That sounds good. And I took a tour. And it was it seemed pretty cool. Like it feel fun. You know, like, Okay, I'll do it. This seems chill. How was the school? I mean, all beauty schools have their like limitations on like, what kind of supplies you get, and definitely you never know about what you're setting up for. Because there's such a variation of ages. It's people in different stages of life. So it was definitely like a rough start. Just being in a roomful of women all want to do the same thing. And it's kind of competitive, but everyone who wanted to learn, but also nobody knew it was there doing too. So it was kind of chaotic, for sure. But I mean, at the end of the day, like I passed my state boards, I got it done. I mean, I'm here, I'm licensed. They told me after two years, if you saw, if you renew your license, you're gonna keep doing esthetics. If you don't renew, after two years, you're gonna end up doing something else, like I don't know, like, be realtor, or have a whole nother business or just be like a salon owner or something. But I think you'd have to have a license to be sworn over. But I don't know. That was kind of like what I was, like, interested in at the time. So I told myself that if I was really into aesthetics, I'd go back for masters. But I ended up just being perfectly capable. I mean, luckily Washington State you don't have to have a masters to do lash lifts. I don't California it kind of changes. Oh, really? Oh, okay. I think that I think it's a Dermaplaning too. It gets more in depth. Yeah. dermaplane I might be wrong, though. Don't quote me on. Yeah, no, here we can do dermaplane But not in every state. Yeah, with esthetician license, it's kind of weird. Because like, you could just cross a line and do it. And they can't tell you anything. But you never know. It's always good to be knowledgeable of the licenses. And do you keep in touch with any of students? I think we started out with a group of 22 Girls, okay. We graduated with 12 it was it was intense. Um, some people they didn't like it. Some people switch schools, some people just dropped out or they couldn't afford it or they had like life situations like they just can't have childcare. Some of them went to like night school. But I do. I don't keep in touch. I just like definitely follow them on social media. I have reached out to some of them. I think about a year after one of them. Her name was glam glow, glam and glow. Oh, no. She changed her name. She's called lash futon. She's in California. She's one of the esthetician. She was like one of the she was really into social media back in 2017. And she actually did social media for I think the salon that she got her lashes done at so she learned about lashes through that salon, and she did their social media. And then she was just kind of like, kind of gatekeeping her info kind of protecting her energy. But when I talked to her, she was just like, No, this is what I do. I'm trying to do lashes I want to get into skincare. So she actually worked for that salon. As an esthetician she had her own room. And then eventually she moved on to live in Vegas. And then she has her little salon called lash futon. She was actually on a podcast. It was really interesting. Oh, she's pretty successful. Oh yeah, she's doing her own thing. I think she did like lash courses online too. But that was like really early on before that online. I think it was like before the pandemic she started doing that, and selling her Corona. Like brand of lashes stuff. But it was cool. She actually did lash lifts while we were in school. And then nobody was doing them because they didn't have the products or it wasn't that one was pretty new. Yeah, it was pretty, pretty new. But who else did I keep in touch with? I tried to keep in touch with some of them. But some of them just like dipped out there. They're not doing aesthetics. It's kind of sad. I mean, we all did hard labor in school. So you would hope that they're still doing it. But I think some of them just got the licenses to learn. Because I didn't learn about makeup until I got to esthetics school. Like I couldn't wear makeup. I couldn't wear jeans. Like it was kind of I think I heard some statistic that just only one out of five will will be in this career. Wow. No, I did five not sure in the class or like after they graduate? Um, I think in a class. That's crazy. It feels about right. And honestly, I think that was the most difficult thing was finding a job after because there was a little good there. Okay, here we go. about school. What do you think? Beauty Schools? I would phrase it weak sides, like what they're liking? Oh, what's like in their room, in their in education in their curriculum? I think they're kind of limited. Because there's a lot of like, things that some people don't want to do. Like, I can't really explain it that in depth. But if you think about it, it's definitely like they didn't have lash tinting. I guess last printing is not FDA approved. So they didn't want to teach anybody that because they didn't want to get sued by somebody. But now we have consent forms. So it's like it shouldn't be a big deal. I have a client signed consent form that they should they should be able to train people. And then I'm pretty sure they're brand that they're supposed to provide in trainers in was like out of business like they don't sell. And the same thing was spray tanning. They mentioned that there were they had the machine everything. They're like, Yeah, we don't have what's the word? We don't have the product carrier anymore. They're out of business. So we're not going to teach you guys I'm like, Well, that was in the curriculum. That's like so girl went on Amazon and bought the spray tanning machine. And we just learned how to spray tan from the one girl doing it. It was interesting. It was actually really cool because now everyone knew how to spray tan weren't certified, but it was really cool. Definitely what they're lacking is is just the right like what their top. I think they're really gearing up people for waxing and facials and kind of setting them up to work for somebody else which is super discouraging, because that's true. It's because from my experience, I think they should go a little deeper into business deals. Maybe some of customer service, definitely customer service. There's a lot of girls I went to school with that had no customer service experience at all whether it's just rebooking your clients, making sure they're buying the retail Like you're selling them, but it was very like lackluster. It wasn't something that would make them be successful, even if they work for somebody else. Yeah, how to maintain this retention with the brand as well. And that's a big important thing if you're working for yourself, because how you're going to survive. If you don't know how to talk to your client, it's important to rebook over two weeks or three weeks, whichever, that is true. Yeah, so definitely making sure they have access to the services that they can offer. But also definitely preparing them for being in a situation where what if a client is injured, or like, there's a lot of things that I think were skimmed through quickly over, because they tried to condense it so much in the book, and it's kind of once you're out there. They're kind of just like, Okay, well, your boss is just gonna retrain you. So we're not gonna worry about that right now. That's true. And talking about experience. Have you worked somewhere else besides beauty? Yeah, I did. I mean, I worked for my parents. They don't they own their own business. They keep clean cars car detailing for living. They were working with originally. What was it car dealerships themselves, so they would do the car dealerships cars, but eventually they had clients that would want the same service. And then that's kind of how they branched off to like, once they got on social media, they only do clientele work. They haven't accepted a job from a car dealership very rarely. It's really bad. But I learned from them. And then I also worked at Michaels. I did like stocking and cashiering. That was fun. But I think the other part that I learned the most was I worked at like a, what is it like a retail clothing shop. I worked at Van Heusen for a little bit. But I was kind of like a really good natural born seller. So it was really easy. So you got this customer service. Yeah. And I mean, I worked in an outlet mall, where we get over like a wave of Canadian tourism, and they not want to know the prices, they want to know the sales like you have to be prepared. So I kind of already knew customer service, just watching my parents and being in that industry where you're the only staff there and your manager is not going to help you. So you gotta you gotta work on your own work on your toes. And what was your first place to work at SS dition for esthetician I worked at benefit brow bar, I worked in Redman at that Alta as a was like a team member. I think they call it a beauty advisor, which most of they didn't know any beauty stuff. They kind of just like the reps came in, and they showed you and then they kind of like, okay, we need to sell eight mascaras today. And then you're just ringing people up. But eventually, from there, once I got licensed, they let me work a better football roster, I would say benefit Bauer was my first job. And that was very high sales. I think they had like a list of people calling in to get services. And then mainly they're like, You got to sell a certain amount by the end of the week. What if you don't if you don't you lose your hours? Or at least or at least they didn't? They didn't give you a shift that you wanted or like you kind of like dipped on ships. Yeah, it's pretty stressful. And they would take you aside and be like, Hey, you didn't sell a lot. So we're just gonna give you this day. Unfortunately, we can't afford it or something like that. It was kind of a does. It was it. I mean, you already you're scared to do brows. So then I'm gonna sell as mentioned product. I mean, it was easy to sell for me. But as a new esthetician, I was just trying to like, make sure the browser okay. And and what was the next step? Oh, after that I had a real client had really great eyelash extensions. And I learned eyelash extensions is cool. But it was like a one day course. And they're like, take pictures of 10 models. Yeah, first of mentioned five lashes on each eye. And then you hear you got your license. Yay. So I did like maybe three clients out of my house on my couch. And I was fine. But I knew I could do better. Obviously they weren't they were bad. I thought I had some way there. Oh, god. Yeah. But the client of mine, she gave me her business card for a lash place. I'm not gonna say the place, okay. But I got that business card. I interviewed with them. And they seemed like all stars and like, everything's be awesome. Like, I'm going to be growing here. So I'm like, Okay, that's better than having to sell my soul, you know, every week, you know, and then trying to fight for the hours to wax because you got tipped at the end of the day. And no, you can get your cash tips that day, which I thought was kind of cool. Oh, yeah. I mean, now you just cash. I mean, I don't care now. But back in the day, that was cool. Like, I'll tell you right there. I worked in the auto one for maybe like four months, but I worked. I worked at least a year doing the other stuff. But I'm pretty sure it was like it wasn't that long. I showed up late a lot. So I had like one day, or like if you were late one more time, they're fired me. Or I had to quit and I'm like, I'm gonna quit anyways. I'm gonna do it again. Me, because I was crazy. I was doing like three jobs while I was in school. Mm hmm. So I would do the Alta closing shift, which would be from like, I'd go to school all day get get past, I would show up at altar at six. I wouldn't leave until 10. And then I had about 20 minute drive. And then I'd wake up at seven again to be in school exactly at eight sundown. Dude, I did that it was I don't even know how I ended up. I was like, 90, I did it. Yeah. Yeah. So I was late all time. That's, unfortunately, but I got out of that habit. I mean, I wake up early. I'm ready. Okay. And after that last place you got into your sugar plan. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, I see my book. Okay, yeah. So when I left the lash place, it was just I was very burnt out, like, so burnt out at 21 that it was just unhealthy. I got super depressed. I just didn't want to do that. Well, I was working off. Well, first of all, it was kind of a stressful scenario, it was a full service salon. So you're doing eyelash extensions, you're doing waxing, you're doing facials, you're doing basically as much as you can. Because it's like a one stop shop for the client, which is great. But as an esthetician, you can burn yourself out, especially if you want clients who just want to make money, but it was kind of an environment where they kind of let you do that for a little bit. And then you like, if you want more money, you're only working surmount commission, you have to work more days. So I told myself, like, Oh, I'll work six days a week out, I'll make enough money and then I'll save up and maybe I'll move on or whatever, to make enough money. No. And then I burned out. And then it I think one of the employees was catching on that I was going to leave. They told the owner before I got to and it was kind of awkward. But I wanted to take my two weeks off. And she's like, Okay, we'll talk later. And I was very emotional. I was like an emotional wreck. I was just like, there's like breaking up with my boyfriend. It was weird. I think I was because I was there for like two and a half years. I was planning it was like almost going to be three years working there. And how many days it didn't work. I started off at five days a week. Okay, and then or no for, I think four and then it went to four or five. And then by the time I ended, it was six and a how many I felt like I never left. I lived there. How many hours a day? I think we showed our shift a full it was like eight, nine hours and still not been able to no money. No, I could probably pay like two bills. But my husband race really supported me throughout my whole career. It was not easy. But I mean, it was nice. I mean, I got to learn everything you got experience. Oh, yeah. Anywhere you go. You're good experience. Yeah, I definitely did get a lot of experience. But what about sugar bomb you? Okay, so I thought it wasn't going to continue, like lashing. I thought I was like, I'm not going to aesthetics anymore. So I took a semester or I took a week off and I went to school for a semester. And then after that, I was like, You know what, maybe I should try again. I interviewed with at least four to five different places. None of them wanted to hire me. Do you have a guess why? They thought it was an experience. I had no certifications. I had no proof that I could do eyelash extension. I mean, I knew I could but like none of them wanted to hire me they wanted a sugar a store. They wanted a waxer and I was not good at neither of those at the time I definitely good was lashes, I was mainly focused on classic lash extension, tinting, and lash lifts. But at the time, I felt like none of them wanted to hire an experienced person, whether it was taking a risk, or they wanted me to sign a non compete and I'm not signing to one of those unless it was reasonable. But sugar plum, the hiring manager contacted me contacted me and she mentioned that, um, like I just kind of told her my story, and she was like, You're gonna be fine here. I'm like, really? Are you? I'm like, Okay, I'm trusting you. Like, I'm like, I really don't want to do esthetics again, because it was really scary. After being burnt out that long. I was really and then my non compete was ridiculous. It was like you can't work 40 miles within each location. And it was in Seattle. It's like I couldn't work it in Seattle. I couldn't make a living like that. How long? I think it was a year after quitting. Wow. Yeah. So what you don't want me to work at all? You're crazy. But every place that you work for asks you to sign non compete agreement? Yes. Yeah, all of them did a benefit brow bar was like 12 miles. I think that's fair. That makes sense. But it was her brow waxing like, what do you think that doesn't make like you can do anything after like brow wax and you can get away with not doing but I think it was just like mandatory with their company. The last place I worked at it was I think 30 miles or 40 miles between each location and it was in Greenland, Redman and in downtown Chloroquine. And so I couldn't work anywhere. And nobody wanted to hire me when I told them that, because they either didn't want to get involved, or they just didn't trust my expertise. And it was just, I don't know, it sucked. It was really depressing. But Shuguang contacted me. And I went through their interview process, I met their training managers and I was like, okay, like, I'm going to do this. And then it was fine. I was like, pretty much like, so busy. That following I never made so much money that summer, just Sure. grain? Yeah, no, I was I partnered with another audit. She was like my training partner. She had worked for her own already just doing extensions. And she goes, I never made this much money in a summer, like, ever. And it was just sugaring. And they had a really good, like a competitive, a pricey, they really wanted to they're very long, wanting to make sure you live made a livable wage, and the training was free. They just wanted to guarantee that could do it. Because you have to be willing to sugar dudes, you know, you have to be comfortable with sugar and everybody. Yeah, and I was fine with that. I mean, if they trained me, well, that's all I cared about. Like, if you can train me, I don't care if because I was so scared about being retrained and not knowing what I was doing and being put in a situation where Oh, you don't know how to do this? Well, you're just gonna find out when you do it. Yeah. Was it difficult? Like, yeah, get tired physically? Oh, yeah. Because like who? Oh, definitely. Oh, definitely sugar. So I would say after a year of sugaring, I needed a break. Yeah. And I asked for like shorter schedules, and they had a way around that they knew your body would kind of start to teeter off after two years. So what was happening? My wrist start getting inflamed. And then my shoulder. Definitely, it was my shoulder a lot. nicer. But luckily, they had health insurance. I had, I've never had health insurance. At least I did when I was a kid. But they had all the things set up so that if I was having pain, that they would short my schedule, we'd be we'd be like on, like, I think it was light duty. We would have light duty days, if it was really inflamed. What is light duty? Basically, you'd only take like for three clients, what is not my duty, taking clients on the hour, like 30 minute, 15 minute intervals, because they put it off three minutes. And how many hours a day. The longest days was eight or nine hours. But that's not in counting like the 15 minutes. At the end of the day. You got to clean your room about 15. Yeah, those are long days. But the thing I was working like Tuesday to Thursday, those were only six hour shifts. And I liked that. And they made so much money there because I know that they had a night crew and day crew. So they were just rolling in estheticians going back and forth. But it was so nice. Everybody was so chill there. And I had great trading. I wouldn't I mean, their training was like top tier. Go work for them. Okay, they're also what are they doing? Um, what is it when you like a franchise? Oh, yeah, they're franchising they do. And yeah, so if you want if you want to invest, go context. Why did you start your own business? Why didn't you stay there? For example? Who? Well, my my definitely, I love sugary there. I would definitely if I wasn't working for myself, I'd worked for them again. Okay, you know, in a heartbeat. Definitely. Just because they made it so easy to schedule, with your schedule. And they were just a really good company to work for. And I think what really got to me was that during the pandemic, I got bored. And also, I was only working with one other human. They had a doing a limited working. Yeah, I wonder why he was so sad. And then they didn't want us to eat together either. Because I'm like, Oh, it's just sad to go eat my car. Or I don't know. But if I wasn't working there, I definitely just I needed to add variation to my day. Sugary all day was great, but it was hard on my body. And I definitely knew I could do extensions. I knew I could do lash lifts. So I'm like, hopefully I can do it. So you don't think you would be able to do sugar in full time? Yeah, the rest of your life? I mean, not sugar people have just 16 I don't want to it's not good idea. But definitely I'll keep triggering. I just wouldn't want to solely sugar because it's so hard on your body. I mean, I'd have to like shorten my schedule, like three days a week or something. I mean, I'd make good money. It's fine if you only sugar, because it's only like 30 minutes appointment and you do offer sugar in your business. Oh, yeah, totally. Okay, totally. Do you take breaks from that? Or sometimes I'll block out my schedule if my body's feeling hurt. And that's another reason why I work for myself. Okay, because I if I'm not feeling good, I definitely would just like block the day off. Take a breath, stretch. Go to the chiropractor. I went to the chiropractor last week. That was fun. I've been waiting like two years. It's good. I've never been it's good. It's good for your back. I mean, I'm I'm used to having a lot of pain because of the sugaring, but it's good to get a good quick all the estheticians when they're literally shoulders, especially who's lashing oh my god your lower back. Uh huh. And not everybody that has like the saddle chairs like I have my South chair right now but I don't think I like it much. It's personal preference. Yeah, I like I would like some people have back support. And some people have like the little the flat ones. ones. Yeah, those ones are cool. I'm used to saddle chairs because I got customed to it was like I use it. Well in sugar one we didn't have no chairs in there. So we're standing for like meat ourselves a lot. I got actually a supportive Matt recommend to get one. When you're standing a lot. It's like the you know In the back and like the kitchen, there's like the standing mats where you wash. So I just bought one of those and put it on one side. This is how you're totally okay. And you get another one for other side, but I want to test out the first one. Make sure it lasts long enough. Okay, that's interesting. Never seen it. Yeah, it's good to get. So it was it difficult to start on yon? Oh, definitely. Was it especially. I mean, I had clients from Ballard, who had saw me and Ballard so I had lash clients, but obviously it wasn't enough to have any overhead like any enough to like No, you're right, huh. You're in Lynwood. Yeah. Lynwood at the ultimate slot studios, they just got bought out by mosaic. So now they're going to be called Ultimate sauce videos. But there was an old my own couple actually trained in my room with what was it Mackenzie Graham. She was in that very room. And I train there, and the girl who had that she was currently renting there. She actually trained with her to in that room, too. And so I found her through Manila girl. She was really nice. Okay. And she was trying to break release. And I was like, I'll take it. I don't need to roomy. I'll take it. What else do you need to start your business? Obviously, to find a place? That was the first thing finding a place and making sure I could afford it? Because I think at the time, I was paying like 500 a month. It was it was okay. If I had it for what for the whole month of renting for booth reading because I was booth reading in last year micro. Okay. Eventually, just just a bit. Yeah, I had my own bed. Yeah. Okay. She had her best buy. I was like, I'm at my own. Okay. So, do you need any business license? Oh, yeah, we're have to Oh, my God, you can get lost on that website for the business like sets. It's so confusing. I had to like, I think what I ended up doing was, I wrote a list down on my phone notes. And just like, look, what do I need? And then I asked my brother because he's know so much about making like LLCs and like businesses, he's he's done a lot of like side businesses. I'm like, okay, am I doing this right? And he's like, Yeah, you went to the trademark place. First. I think it's called, I don't know what it's called. Something trademark. I don't know. You go there. And from there, you do like it's, it's exhausting. But then Wednesday, wood, she's a wicked lash aesthetics. She has a salon checkbook. So it shows a list of what you need. Obviously, it's based for Texas. But it's the same crap. We don't have anything like that in Washington State. A checklist like that. Yeah. It was like a little ebook. It was free. I think it was free. It was like on her email or something. But no, I don't know of any esthetician is actually laid out actually one of my friends on Nani aesthetics was tribal aesthetics. She must be just like, Am I doing everything right? Like I think so. But don't quote me. Okay. You have to double check yourself. So how do you find clients? Oh clients oof, referrals. Referrals will save your butt or word of mouth will be your best moneymaker. Obviously, you have to touch the three tiers Google, Yelp. I mean, I didn't want to Yelp for the longest time. Yelp was my last my last year I think yelps the mafia. Okay. So you do have good experience with Yelp. I just know they're bad. Just because people who have are not verified customers, they can they can leave review reviews. So if someone has a hate for you, they could leave you should review and it probably can happen anywhere. To Yes, I just don't like Yelp because of the way that they advertise businesses. It's just not I don't think it's a good plot. No, it doesn't set you up for success. It makes you want to spend more money. But it doesn't make sense. Because if you're starting out you don't have much money. Yes, I would rather invest in Google or Facebook. Google ads. Yeah, I don't I don't like Instagram ads anymore. I mean, I was going to ask about Instagram why not? I think like the promoting thing it can work for temporary like if you have like one post but I think unless you're doing a giveaway you can do the same thing without paying it's it's all hashtags I feel like but it also depends what you're advertising because I know some people if you have like a really good deal get a lot of clients so you think giveaway works. What my way giveaway giveaway I think giveaway works. Yeah, you get a lot of people refer you what a local people. Unfortunately, I had a bunch of people from my sister's church. Okay, they all call me they call me to all the people and it sucks because like they they don't really live in the area. They live like, like closer to Seattle. So it's like, hard to get them in. But I mean, at least they know me. They follow me to follow for follow up. All right. What about Groupon have your triangle Oh yeah, Groupon, I love hate relationship with Groupon. Okay, Groupon is intense. You it is not for the light hearted artist. What do you mean? Just in general setting yourself up on Groupon, it is basically like you are very much discounting your services, but also to a point where you aren't making any money. If not, you're very making the bare minimum, like you're barely covering your costs. Even if you're doing I would not do lash extensions. I would. I mean, as long as your timing is very time, I would only do like a 25 to 30 minute service. I would not offer anything more because it is such a so if you're not making money, so what's the point? The point of the Groupon? Yeah, that's they they cover so many people and they have so many people, Groupon, like so many. I mean, I was on Groupon shoot. And it just covers a lot of clientele very quickly, without having to put in money, at least a lot of money down. I mean, you're losing money. If you're doing it but bad. You think that it's a good way to build your clientele. So totally when you're starting out? Yeah, I think it is. You just have to know what you're doing. I went to what was it? The secrets of estheticians. They have a Facebook group. And then they also have it's like a woman named Libby's last account, I can't remember the name. But if you look up tickets estheticians, she has a it's called 100k to something, but I can't remember it. But the whole point is like wax into 100k. And it's geared for waxers for resilience. And she has a whole segment on Groupon, on how to use it well, to your like the squeeze the crap out of your Groupon just get the most out of it without having to invest too much more money on how to do that quick service. Make sure it's a quick service. Okay. And definitely make sure you have consent forms, make sure everybody has a cc on file. Number one thing and then also I would recommend that you have your referrals and your military discount student discounts, whatever, what do you ever you want to run? It's already on your website, people can see it, and you're communicating to your client like, Okay, let's get you booked. Like, you have to be on your feet and prepared because you're gonna have clients who are hesitant to rebook because they're kind of there for the deal. Yeah. And also, what I do is a pre booking discount. So let's say I see you for service. Okay, let's get you down the books. Let's do like $5 $10, whatever you want you can do just for pre booking that day, making sure they're getting that in booking it in, they get a discount. So it's an incentive. Okay, well, what about packages? Is it a good idea? If you can afford it, because some people don't want to invest? Like when they hear word package, like, Oh, I'm going to spend a lot of money on other people. They hear packaging, like, oh, yeah, well, well, how much is the package? So I think I did like three packs. And I did a buy one get one thing. So like, Hey, you buy my three pack? You can get a free What is it a free? Another free? I think I did get certificate like you get a gift certificate for the same amount for the one service. So it was like you buy when you get so technically it was a four pack. Okay, yeah, that's pretty simple. So you would still recommend Groupon? Oh, I would. But I would definitely mentally prepare yourself to have a wild time because you're gonna have amazing clients. And then you're gonna have these random people who are just, you're just like, unsure if they liked it, you're unsure if they'll rebook, but you're there. It's just you just get the whole shebang of clients. So you have to be mentally prepared and like protect your energy. You know, someday we're gonna be really picky. So we were going to be like, if you've been in the industry, you'll be fine. But if you're totally new, like at a school taking Groupon, you're gonna have the worst time. You're just gonna like, it'd be overwhelming, but I mean, adult people. So it's, it's pretty easy. I mean, I did Groupon facials, back in the day. Okay. Plum facials, I think it was like 50 bucks. 40 bucks. That was interesting. Nobody bought anything. I mean, the people that did, they got great skin. But that was buddy. Yeah, that was the group on I think that's where I learned how to handle a lot of customer services, just handling Groupon, because you get so many different kinds of people, all ages, all backgrounds, and it kind of just get you down in the dirt. You know, like, get you're really dealing with people. Do you have any recommendations how to handle difficult clients, or definitely have the patience of an angel? I mean, you have to have everything, you have to have a lot of patience, especially when you're taking clients. I had a client yesterday call me and she couldn't book an appointment online. She could not figure it out, like in our heads like it's easy open the website, you click the button, but some clients, they're not going to be able to access that and they want to book over the phone. So you have to be prepared and have the patience to answer the phone and give a good customer service and not sound rude or annoyed. Like you have to be nice to everybody. I treat everybody as if they were my family member. Mm. So I feel like that's a good way to treat everybody good. But also, I learned this really hard way is that you to protect your energy. Don't let people take advantage of you, especially just employees, anybody don't let anybody tell you, you're doing something wrong. Because if they're coming a few for a service, that means they're paying you for your expertise. And they if they don't like what you do that's on them, but you can't let people bossing around. I've had so many clients try to manipulate me to like, take them for their full service that they like, showed up play or manipulate me that they need more time on their lashes or something or just manipulate me on just random things. And it's, it's scary. Because like, it's like a fully grown adult woman tell it like bullying you. Like, how do I deal with it? And it's scary. Sugar poems, like control your room. And it's true, you should control your room. It's your room, it's your business. What if someone is really truly unhappy with the service? I mean, it depends on your policies. Some people don't use refunds my policy, I think it's case by case for sure. I try not to do refunds on lash services, because I've already invested with the materials on some. I just like okay, well we'll try to make it work. I tried to give myself 48 hours after to make it up whether they want another free service or they don't know their sugaring wasn't that great so I'm they're gonna come in next week or I don't know their lash lifted and lift so or something. I mean, hardly doubt that my lashes. But still Ashley, sir, they're gonna go yeah, they can. They can be finicky. So whatever, whatever they did only, definitely, depending that if they're doing it live, just do it again. That days. Fine. But then again, I mean, you have to be experienced do that. Yeah, that's true. So why would just wait until the next month? But I remember I would just not I would never have a client that is unhappy pay. That's kind of my plot. Unless I know I did a good job. That's why extensions. I don't get refunds because like, I know them lashes are all there. You're pretty confident. Yeah. What is your most favorite service? And what is the least favorite service? I think it changes every year, or like my moods seasonally. Like right now lash lifts for sure. Lash lifts? laminations. They haven't done a lot of that's a favorite. Favorite. Yeah, right now lash lifts. But technically my all three are everything. So sugaring lash lifts and extensions. The extensions are the last ones because it makes my brain work. Like so challenging because you have to learn with the humidity, the glue the curls and all that. So definitely i i love sugaring, but lash lifts. Ooh, they're so fun. I just have fun. I could talk about them all day. We'll be here all day. I know what's your least favorite service? Ooh, what do I not like to do? I don't like waxing. So I don't watch. If I don't What do you like sugaring? You know, I love sugary. If I got carpal tunnel, I'd go learn how to wax. But I love to green. There's like no way you could hurt someone unless you really don't know what you're doing. Because I've been triggered by somebody that they didn't know what they were doing and it That was not fun. Okay. What about chemical peels? Oh god. Yeah, no, you hate now. I can't do chemical peels because when I was originally working for the lab first second gonna be my second job. They kind of just set me up with like a what is it like a level one pill? And I had level two peels superficial. Yeah, the superficial ones. I think it was like a lactic alpha hydroxy may be a glycolic. It was like a really more natural base brand. I mean, I liked the brand, but I am terrified to do them because I had so I had Groupon clients come in and they want the peel. I don't really know if they were using stuff but Okay, have you ever messed up? I'll totally, totally mess up. I mean, I don't know. Because like, I don't remember what I did. But if I but if you go read the review their bed. Yeah, definitely. I've had terrible reviews about like peels. It's scary. I mean, if you're not trained, what are you doing doing them? I mean, I mean, yeah, you think it's pretty simple that you lay it on the skin. But yeah, I definitely don't like appeals. If I were to go back into skin though, I would definitely retrain. I want to just like extensions. I'd want to retrain with a company or someone I would trust somebody that can say you can do this peel. You're not going to burn anybody because I've heard people I've forgotten. It's just so scary. And talking about trainings, certifications. What would you recommend from your experience? Where to go to get trained? That's hard. I mean, I would say definitely sugar and go get trained at Sugar Plum. But they usually require you work for them for at least a solid year and some people don't want a year. So tamaraws That's what I trained with a woman she's called SassaFrass salon in Seattle. She was amazing. I retrained with her while I was working at Sugar Plum. And she caught on that I was already starting to do things wrong incorrectly, or just going to some weird stuff and she's like, Yeah, you're gonna hurt your body doing this. So she corrected me with a lot of the things that I wasn't paying attention to. Okay, I went to Vaughn lash leafs, lash lifts. I don't know who does. It might be online. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. Usually, the lash mother. Okay. She's awesome. She's, what is it? The beauty shop. She's from Canada. She's a Toronto law. That's like the best one out there. I don't think I could find another one. That's just as good. I know that Wednesday, wood has her lash lift. You just came out with the lash lift course. But once you do a Uli course like, holy crap, you don't need to look back. It's very in depth. It was like learning lash extensions. But with lash lifts. It was intense. I shapes I texture, chemicals, and then ever you can work with any brand after that. Basically, I mean, I still kind of want to take le bonnet and see what was up with that. But I don't know. I don't know. We'll see what it is. What about extensions? Sue? It has to be in person. Yeah, definitely were in Seattle. I feel like I don't know. I'm, you should be learning lashes in person. But if you really can't afford in person, they're expensive. They're X. Oh my god. I'm very excited. I think I've the cheapest one I see was like $500. And it was advertised in like downtown Seattle. And like, it was just like a random company random girl just like I'm gonna come train people. And it was intense, but they're expensive. I think the first one I paid for was 1700. With McKenzie. I think it was 1700 or something like that. I remember. It was worth it. I got cool tools. I got new brands introduced to my brain like it was good. I mean, it was my first volume course I've never taken volume. I only knew classics, one to one. And I had only done classics for three, four years straight and took a break for two years. So sugaring. So when I took her volume class, I was hella rusty. But I still knew placement. Like I still knew how to isolate. Well, I feel like it was still good. I just needed a really, you got to hammer down on your practice when you're learning extensions. Who else did I train with? Oh, Cassie, from lash loft. She doesn't like a volume. I think I really did like that. That was a really good training. It was really thorough. She has about seven years of experience. I'm just working with all the brands, she's taken all the classes. Okay. And she hosts she's hosting a GAO revolution lash next month. I wish I could take it but I mean, you gotta save up, you're gonna know everything I know. But I just would love to learn. It's good. I just get really excited about learning what people know. Because it's not just like, I don't like learning from like big brands, or they kind of teach the basics super quickly. But definitely, if you can find someone that's already taken those courses, it's just as enriching you know, it's just as like, You got to follow make sure you use it with the vibe to talking about brands, what brands would you recommend for extensions, lifts, tensions, lifts, maybe sugaring. Triggering sugaring right now? I know you can. I think I like tamaraws The most Alexandria's supposed to be super fancy. Okay. i But their training is expensive. So you have to be trained to buy none to be a buy any of them. And that was very difficult because sometimes, if you don't have a sugaring certificate, you can't buy sugar. So how are we going to learn? I remember I bought sugar from a lady from sugar beauty lounge. I bought it right before this. I had like four tubs. And then by the end of it, I went to rebuy again. And then like I was just more here like Oh, that sucks. I was planning to buy more. I didn't need it certificate. Yeah. And that's pretty expensive, even more expensive than extensions. Vacation for certification for cameras was only 700. I really, it was 500 for the training and 350 for the kit and it's like a full kit. That kit lasted me forever. Sugar lasts forever. Okay. I mean, unless it was usually it doesn't go by though. What about lash lifts? Lash lifts? Um, we're training on products? My lamination for sure. Le Bonna. The Pro fusion? Definitely the pro version. It's gentle. It's easier to work with and it's not as like fast. I feel like it gives you if you're a beginner, it gives us time definitely Ruthie Bell. Oh my god. Yeah, I told you. You were told you're the first one. Tell me about that. And I was like, You're crazy. I'm like, You're crazy. Irina, what are you talking about some random brand from Europe. I'm like, okay, whatever. And then I looked it up like holy shit, and then they have organic, rashly. Yeah. And they don't have the sodium bromate or any of that crap. Very gentle is very hard was the other one. The last regime President was trying Inle okay, and that was a really good brand too. And then if we're talking about shields as a path of a knock everyone else, at least to start at least that's is your favorite i Yeah, Managua big North Shields are my failure and Lee Do you mostly use them? Yeah, I use them they work for everybody's eye shape and their curl but in Lee and cat the binocs shields are my favorite and then the beauty house shop that's where I buy all my stuff for lash lifting solely. I've also bought in from absolute beauty They're the only people that let me buy in Lee in the United States. I could buy from the same company but they say Canada only and I'm like, Why isn't only Canada? Here? Ah, I think it's like something you would like someone lies in some southern to do with like, whatever who's in what is it the best franchise? I don't know. Whoever's wholesaling. It's like a limit. My Okay, fine. I won't buy from one place. That's fine. What about extensions? All extensions. Yikes. Jamie February. McCollum out don't use JB Okay. borboleta is okay to start off with. I haven't tried them, but I know they're pretty affordable. Think I tried. I remember the place I worked at they used minkeys Never heard of them. whatsoever. And glue glue right now lash balm. The green cap. The it's like a fusion one. It works really good. Tweezers tweezers. By volume mega volume tweezers is bumbum lashes. So that's the lady in Millcreek. It's called lash loft. She's amazing. She has her brand of volunteers. I keep buying them. I dropped him like twice already. I'm super mad at myself. But it's fine. I'm expensive. No, they're not. They're like 35 bucks. No, they've been pretty average. I mean, if I buy from lash box LA, they're pretty expensive, especially with the shipping. But I'm still trying to find someone that sells less bucks. La I know there's lady in Seattle and I know they're the lady in like ordering Culinaria then I'm trying to buy from like those people who already buy locals better extensions. So definitely last bucks away. But I'm replacing all my mega volumes with lash lash loft right now. I love her lashes. They're very similar to lash box LA. I wouldn't say they're like, I don't know. It depends on like, if like people's like, I want a really dense set or something like they're like the lashes are super dense or something but I can't tell the difference. I just liked the way they pick up. Lash box la it's kind of like hit or miss. Like I'll pick up some trays and they'll just be like, it's kind of like I'm going through trays because I'm like picking at them. I don't know it was me. But lunchbox la then bumbum lash is great. And then what else? She what's her name? Designer Pro classic lashes. I liked her classic lashes. For only the 0.2 oz. Yeah. That very thin classics. Yeah, I think you've tried the other ones. Yeah. Are you hopeful about those? I think that's it for lashes. I've been wanting to try Maven. I don't know. Do you have a list of brands of products that you would recommend to avoid buying? Definitely. What did I not like? How about supplies from Amazon? I actually have kids from Amazon as glue. Yeah, I am whatever. Yeah, I think I was not a fan of the SOCO lash glue. But that was because I was, I think too quick for it. And it's like a slower. It's a slower drying. So glues it says depends on like, the amount how fast you can work. So I think I started off using that one. And it was all right. But I used it again. Recently when I ran out. Like I asked my boss like, Hey, I'm gonna buy a bottle off you real fast. My glue is not in the shipping yet or whatever. And I use it. I'm like, yeah, no, I don't I can't work with this glue no more. And then I also did designare approach. She had a quick, she had that glue worked for me for a while. But eventually it was just too slow. The humidity in Washington sucks. I mean, yeah, like, in time. Yeah. My humidifier is always on or is it's just tip top for tweezers. I didn't really like what was the brand called it was pink. It was it was another lady off Instagram. I don't remember. If you asked me, like can pop it on Instagram. Okay, but um, those ones I didn't like. They were fine. There were good. isolators ooh, I know another good brand. I don't have what they don't have. Like, if you go to my room, I have like a little crayon. It's like a plastic bin like you'd put your crayons in there. It's sparkly. That's why I have all the ones that I don't use. Like these are the ones I don't use and these are the good ones. When I pop it open. There's like 80 of them in there. I have way too many crazy. I got them from training. And I separated from the ones I really liked out of both trainings or three trainings that I've gotten. And I keep re buying from tweezers. dessiner pro there was another woman that was Her name not wicked. I can't remember the name but it she makes her own tweezers. They're really cool. They should you can pick like the sweet spot on it. I I don't remember her name for some reason I'm blanking. But that was another good brand. I keep buying from my classic tweezers. It's black and gold. I'd set you a million times the square. Yeah. Okay. So I think we're wrapping up. All right. And I have I have a last question. I mean, I still have a lot that. I know. I mean, we can talk for hours. You can always message me too. Yeah. I mean, we'll keep it for the next time. So whenever you need me back here. Yeah. Have you found this balance between work? And personal life? Family? That's, that's so hard. A lot of people struggle with that. Yes, I know that I need a solid two days. And I learned that from sugar plum just because you need a solid two days to recover. But I can't turn off my brain. My brain is always saying about work. Five days a week, I would say I work like seven days. Because I'm always available, but I only works. What was it five days? Yeah. Do you ever go and see your clients when you're they are? No. Oh my god. I did that once. And I will never do that again. Oh, okay. So what do you do when you have days off? Oh, my God. I? I mean, you have to give me the details. Well, it's kind of difficult, because right now I'm printing it. So I usually just need to eat and rest. Go, not too much physical activity. But I definitely when I'm not doing aesthetics, I try to just not think about I don't I try not to put my phone. I try to like cook, or I don't know, I'll listen to music. I watch a lot of movies. I love me some TV shows movies. And I'll put it on the background. I'll wash it, because it's just hard to like decompress. Like, feel like we're always stimulated all the time with clients texting you. Yeah, you need a post today copy of fun outside of work hours. Or texts. If I can tell it's an emergency. But if if it's not if it's not an emergent if, if somebody if a random numbers call me because I have my phone connected with my business number is a big no, no, you shouldn't do that. But I did it. It's the same thing. Yeah, it was like it's fine. It's not a big deal. People mainly email me or they'll Institute DME, which is great. And I say on my voicemail text me. Like don't leave me a voicemail or text me because I'm not picking up the phone. Not because I don't want to talk it was mainly just like, so I can find a balance definitely. But if I'm not, I try not to pick up like when I'm with my husband. I try to I try to not be on my phone. But sometimes he'll pick up his phone purse. I'm like, what do you do? My phone time. But it's hard because you're like, I need to respond. Yeah, this guy needs to move down or whatever situation so it is difficult and I'm still learning how to do that. So like your work and also you own your business. And while I'm in the shower and listen to podcasts, so so I'm just thinking about education, educational podcasts. Yeah. So you're pretty much never asked from work. No, it's fun for me. It's literally enjoyable. Like it's it stimulates my brain. It calms me down. But when I know like mentally I'm like overstimulated, especially now I'm like, really hormonal or whatever they I have to just not think about it. So I have different podcasts that are not PT related. Okay, the crime podcasts. I have some weird ones that they just talked about conspiracy theories, okay, aliens and stuff. Like shouldn't send me so oh my god. I have too long of like, I don't know if you can handle this. Tell me what you're into and I'll send you Okay, thank you so much, Sarah. Anna, I would love to see you again in the future. Oh, yeah. Whatever. Okay. Thank you.